Curse

Terra Xin · Jun 03, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

I reckon power return is more likely effective along with PI... (magnum...mmmm). Couple that with earthbind and holy strike and... and *drool*

Quote:

Damn, youre right. I retract that statement.

OK... I'm just going to hold my keyboard up like... so I can block any ricochets^^.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 03, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by avarre

Umm... yeah, they will use another heal spell. Heal spell. Your power block won't really do anything because Blessed is DF, and they won't really have any other DF spells, sig of devo (not a spell) is about it. More importantly, you can interrupt whatever else they throw up, and most importantly, in the time that their spell didn't go through you should have gotten even more damage off, or more effects tossed around.

Sorry I mistook "blessed light" for a completely different skill "healing light" so that should explain the confusion there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by avarre

Damn, youre right. I retract that statement.

Heh so I screwed up on a factions skill when I don't own factions; beats screwing up on a fundamental skill of gvg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilsod

I'm sorry. I forgot you live in a world where Recharge times are non-existant for non-mesmer skills. Perhaps this will refresh your memory 'Spiteful Spirit, 10 seconds Recharge'. I know EXACTLY what interrupt i'm thinking of.

About the comment on Power Return vs SS; I would like to note that power spike also has a recharge of 10 seconds. However I would still suggest shattering it anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilsod

1. You COULD interrupt the SB/Infuse attempting to cast SB on the monk your team is going for with Power Spike. You do, they take 107 damage. Now you go back to the monk your team is after, they cast Healing Touch as there health drops and you interrupt it with... Power Leak? Hurray the monk will now die with 0 energy....... Oops that SB/Infuse just infused the target and now he's back to health and kiting off.

2. You use Power Return on the SB/Infuse instead. You interrupt his SB and go back to the monk your teams after. Instead you Power Spike his Healing Touch, causing an instant 107 damage and he drops dead. Look back at your SB/Infuse, he just happens to be mid-way through healing the monk that just died and failed.

Power return his SB and then power spike his healing touch? I prefer power spike his SB and power block his heal touch... but different strokes for differnt folks I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushe

you know you're right Eaimirth I just don't understand why you tolerate this abuse to lower yourself ennough to pour your wisdom down upon us. I will from now on forsake all other mesmer elites as powerblock is the only elite to be taken and must be taken if you are even considering interupting anything.

Its just my personal preference; I see it for a skill that disables an opponent for 15 seconds out of 30 seconds. You miss it you are screwed; this is a reason most people do not like the skill. Solution; do not miss. There are other mesmer elites out there; yet this still remains my personal preference. TBH my guild only runs 2 mesmers in our gvg team; of these two mesmers only one carries block as the other one is not comfortable at hitting with it all the time. He interrupts just as well as I do; he just prefers a differnt elite, perhaps its pressure, however I think it is just personal preference.

As for HA I do not play it; I do not like gimmic teams that are composed of healing balls just for controlling the center, its not for me or my guild for that matter. We have not played HA since the IWAY craze and do not plan to for some time. Perhaps when gimmic builds end.

Now for GvG; giving energy to the enamy when they are full of low cost and low recharge spells is just silly. A simple recast of the spell will suffice and allow a net gain on their end. Perhaps this will allow a brief stall for your other interrupts to recharge; yet if you are doing that might as well use another fast recharge interrupt in its place (power spike?). This interrupt will not only pressure monks (the damage has to be healed at some point) but will drain their energy as well. Thus assuming the damage is healed with 5 energy this puts you at even standing assuming the spell was 5e, not a 10+ e point set back.

Avarre · Jun 03, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Sorry I mistook "blessed light" for a completely different skill "healing light" so that should explain the confusion there.

Heh so I screwed up on a factions skill when I don't own factions; beats screwing up on a fundamental skill of gvg.

With another fundamental skill you never heard of, Shadow Shroud, Blessed light is BECOMING a fundamental skill. It's pretty awesome how you can argue against factions players over a skill we use and you can't though.

Quote:

Power return his SB and then power spike his healing touch? I prefer power spike his SB and power block his heal touch... but different strokes for differnt folks I suppose.

In which case the SB monk heals the powerblocked one, and then the heal monk gets protted, and lo they kite away. Exactly what was mentioned but you ignored. If you used spike to kill them, that wouldn't happen. You can't take a net value and expect it to win if you ignore the fact you can do MORE to one thing, kill it, at the price of less to another that you ignore.

Quote:

As for HA I do not play it; I do not like gimmic teams that are composed of healing balls just for controlling the center, its not for me or my guild for that matter. We have not played HA since the IWAY craze and do not plan to for some time. Perhaps when gimmic builds end.

Have fun arguing HA situations with people that do, then.

Quote:

Now for GvG; giving energy to the enamy when they are full of low cost and low recharge spells is just silly.

Not as silly as powerblocking the target and doing damage to something else. If you can keep interrupting a BL monk, for example, you can blackout (you run 2 mesmers, after all) the boon or shadow shroud the BL (won't work vs goh though) and kill the BL.

Arguing that a skill you can't use is crap against people that can use it and think it's good... mesmers are supposed to have clarity of thought.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 03, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

With another fundamental skill you never heard of, Shadow Shroud, Blessed light is BECOMING a fundamental skill. It's pretty awesome how you can argue against factions players over a skill we use and you can't though.

Becomming and is are two completely different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

In which case the SB monk heals the powerblocked one

No the SB'd one gets blackout; and gets to watch the powerblocked one die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Have fun arguing HA situations with people that do, then.

If you look I have never tried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Arguing that a skill you can't use is crap against people that can use it and think it's good... mesmers are supposed to have clarity of thought.

Which is why you surprise me. I do after all carry powerblock; I interrupt, I bet my elite skill on it. Clarity of thought is right; thought you had some.

Avarre · Jun 03, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Becomming and is are two completely different things.

Which is still irrelevant to the point. Any interrupt is useless against boonprot, I showed where interrupts may be needed against monks in GvG. There are also other casters.

Quote:

No the SB'd one gets blackout; and gets to watch the powerblocked one die.

I stand in awe of your ability to cast power block, power spike, and blackout all in 1 second. Unfortunately, time flows in the real world, even if not on your theories.

Especially as nobody mentioned SB being cast. The situation was the heal monk extremely low, and the SB moving to heal it. Return the SB's heal, spike the heal monk, you have a win. Block the heal monk, spike the SB, and the SB's next heal is going for the heal monk, not the 100 damage he just took. Then that monk survives and you miss an oppurtunity.

Quote:

If you look I have never tried.

You are right now.

LightningHell · Jun 03, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

So, let me clarify; I don't want to read through a few pages. (And who was complaining while I was arguing again?

)

In HA, Power Return is good.
In GvG, Power Return isn't as good. (My personal opinion, since I don't HA.)

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 03, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Which is still irrelevant to the point. Any interrupt is useless against boonprot, I showed where interrupts may be needed against monks in GvG. There are also other casters.

Interrupting Mantra of Recall and inspired hex on boonprots; yea very useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by avarre

I stand in awe of your ability to cast power block, power spike, and blackout all in 1 second. Unfortunately, time flows in the real world, even if not on your theories.

Unfortunatly for you; we run two mesmers. Most teams run two monks; I wonder if there is a connection here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by avarre

Especially as nobody mentioned SB being cast. The situation was the heal monk extremely low, and the SB moving to heal it. Return the SB's heal, spike the heal monk, you have a win. Block the heal monk, spike the SB, and the SB's next heal is going for the heal monk, not the 100 damage he just took. Then that monk survives and you miss an oppurtunity.

Guess we have different explainations of low; mine is <200hp. Critical on the other hand would be <100 where powerspike would be the better choice. Now why the monk would be below 100 hp is beyond me; especially with neither monk being locked down at all.
However you misunderstood: I said block the monk; BO the SB. There cannot be a "next heal"; and how you "return" the monk under spell breaker is a secret I would love to know.
Spike the SB while he is under BO, then kill the powerblocked monk. Clean and simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by avarre

You are right now.

No I'm pretty sure we were debating about gvg.

Avarre · Jun 03, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

I'd prefer to hold them down with blackouts shames, Shrouds then shatter for the kill, but whatever...

RIGHT ABOVE the statement you declare this a debate about gvg, you;'re talking about a SB monk, which is a HA used build. It was introduced into the discussion for a HA situation.

Since you obviously can't read, there is little point continuing this. Every person in this thread is against you, and your points are stubborn and selectively ignorant.

LightningHell · Jun 03, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

backfire

?????

Why would you use Backfire?

fatboyslimerr · Jun 03, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Such hostility. In a 2 mesmer team I imagine BO and PB working very well together against an enemy teams monks. (BO on boon prot PB on whatever else they have - guardian is interruptable to prey to god they use it). Tis true, in my experience, GvG teams just don't use spell breaker so you would never have the problem of not being able to cast on them (expect spell shield is kinda an alternative but I ain't seen this used either... yet).

I think backfire and shame are pretty crap unless your running such a hex heavy build, lets say an illusionist hexer as well as a necro siphon spammer, that your little mesmer hexes just can't get removed. I know backfire does super fly damage but a half decent monk would rather sit there and do nothing for its duration than cast through it and take super fly damage. Nothing against shroud though, it just needs to be used pre-spike with super coordination and timing for maximum effect.

If the enemy did have a healer monk (which I presume would be the only kind that used blessed light) then, by power blocking them, they are totally useless (expect for blessed light which could be interrupted with power return) while your team mate mesmer blackouts enemies boon prot, or alternatively you carry blackout and you have a hammer shocker with backbreaker which works similar to blackout in that they can't do jack while they're on the floor.

I agree that gimmic builds and PuG teams are really killing HA. I only bother doing it if a friend or guildies are making a team of people who I know are good and will work together. It is kind of fun in that the majority of underworld teams you meet are shite so you can pretty much get to scarred earth everytime, where you meet rank 8 iways who just make you wanna cry. My solution to iway is to echo nuke the lot of them muhahaha

Avarre · Jun 03, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

?????

Why would you use Backfire?

Because I was in middle of mission and meant Blackout

Fixed.

Nightwish · Jun 03, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

If you are just comparing the direct effects of power return with other mesmer interrupts, obviously others going to look better.

Please remember the relatively lower energy cost and recharge that comes with power return compared to others.

Power Return - Low cost and fast recharging interrupt.

Sure, Power Spike can deal damage, but what if your left with 7e and your opponent casting something nasty?

Eaimirth, power return is not any worse than other interrupts, just that you prefer the advantage of others and choose to ignore the benefits of P.return.

frickaline · Jun 03, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Well said, Nightwish. Like always, use of this skill will likely depend on your build. I believe someone earlier mentioned psychic instability, and I could see power return having a lot of synergy with that particular elite.

bushe · Jun 03, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

two things:

1. if you don't own factions why are you badmouthing about a factions spell, that you have never used?

2. There are other casters for you to interupt against any ballanced team consider the essential ether prodigy flashbot. BF has a 3/4 sec cast and 4 s recharge, and as we all know a good flashbot can keep two warriors pinned under blind pretty well, with power spike you can get one out of every 3 casts of BF, with power return you can get half which means you are 50% more effective, and since flashbots have a near endless supply of energy (assuming you aren't interupting prodigy) the energy you give them is nothing compared to what they are recharging.

The uses for power return are many and obvious to most other mesmers apparently. I have come to the conclusion that you are bitter that you can't use the spell and thus attempt to tear it down for the others as evidenced by your thinking in this thread

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 03, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I'd prefer to hold them down with blackouts shames, Shrouds then shatter for the kill, but whatever...

RIGHT ABOVE the statement you declare this a debate about gvg, you;'re talking about a SB monk, which is a HA used build. It was introduced into the discussion for a HA situation.

Since you obviously can't read, there is little point continuing this. Every person in this thread is against you, and your points are stubborn and selectively ignorant.

Considering 3 out of the past 5 gvg battles I have been in have had enamy monks with spell breaker...and 4 of those 5 one of our monks was running it...I'm pretty sure spell breaker is used in GvG. Yet you declare a skill is used only in HA, which is downright narrow minded and more ignorant than what you claim me to be which makes you a hypocrit. You declare that everyone is against me which is also false, and I personally think you are just using this debate as a front in an attempt to boost your popularity. In which case I ask you to get a build together, use it, and win with it in your famed HA. You claim it has alot of use there, I wish you to prove it. If you can do such a task you win the arguement for the sake of HA; but in GvG you are obviously wrong so I suggest you drop the point.

To Bushe; yet again you overlook the simple. During the preorder event we were allowed to play with these skills for over a week. I still have this skill unlocked, I can get you a screen if you like. Here is a link to it http://img309.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw0571lb.jpg

Note that is "locked" and prevents its current use; but it is evident I had and could use this skill at one time;IE the preorder.

Lastly; if I wanted to take down a flashbot- I would use powerblock: disable the flash, his orb, and his charge all in one go. You are right in that this skill can interrupt 1 out of every two flashes, yet the duration of the flash when being spammed like you suggested still allows the ele to put the two warriors in a flash lock with little notice.

bushe · Jun 03, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

powerblock is fantastic but comparing it to power return is the equivalent of comparing empathy to spiteful spirit, they are different attributes different energy cost, one is elite. Alot of people still use empathy (pve speaking) even though spiteful is markedly better.

I don't care if you use return or not but I don't think you should be posting on a board that return has no uses and as validation of your opinion you keep presenting ludicrous, absent-minded arguements that shift through 2 spells, one of which is elite, which in tandem can generate the same presence as power return at 5x the energy cost. Nobody is telling you that power return is taking the place of power block, far from it, we are saying that there are deffinately places for return.

Evilsod · Jun 03, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

*sigh* Finally someone mentioned it. EE has spent 4 pages going on about how Power Block rules all, give it a frigging rest for just 2 seconds! Just like bushe said, Power Block is a 15 energy cost, 30 second recharge ELITE interrupt. Power Return is a 5 energy, 7 second recharge NORMAL interrupt. If you want to constantly compare Power Block to every other mesmer interrupt, i suggest you pick Power Leech. Until then, stop mentioning it every other sentence.

Its like trying to argue that Signet of Weariness sucks in comparison to Energy Surge. Just because E-surge gives AoE damage to an area and SoR just takes a bit of energy off them, doesnt mean 1 is better than the other.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Jun 03, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushe

powerblock is fantastic but comparing it to power return is the equivalent of comparing empathy to spiteful spirit, they are different attributes different energy cost, one is elite. Alot of people still use empathy (pve speaking) even though spiteful is markedly better.

I don't care if you use return or not but I don't think you should be posting on a board that return has no uses and as validation of your opinion you keep presenting ludicrous, absent-minded arguements that shift through 2 spells, one of which is elite, which in tandem can generate the same presence as power return at 5x the energy cost. Nobody is telling you that power return is taking the place of power block, far from it, we are saying that there are deffinately places for return.

You missed my main point that power return has no direct effect on the flash bot. Yes it is elite; but at least it gets the job done-this spell does not get the job accomplished at all. It has no effect at all on the flash bot, does not hurt, may help but as you said we can ignore the energy gain on this case. However; it has no effect. Both warriors remain blinded, you are down 5 energy for attempting to disable the flashbot with this skill. My point is that your scenario does not exist-you cannot do what you claim to do with this interrupt. Still waiting for your apology about "bitterness about not being able to use the skill" etc. etc. which I believe I proved was a bunch of bull.

robrobrob · Jun 03, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

What if you only have 6 energy and need to interrupt? Powerblock FTW, right?

Because it's obviously better than Power Return in every situation.

LightningHell · Jun 03, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Considering 3 out of the past 5 gvg battles I have been in have had enamy monks with spell breaker...and 4 of those 5 one of our monks was running it...I'm pretty sure spell breaker is used in GvG.

People, I'm staying neutral. -_- Since I don't have Factions.

Where are you GvGing? o_O